Externalising
“The person is not the problem, the problem is the problem”. These words of Michael White have become well-known within the field of narrative therapy. In this chapter we will explore ways of externalizing problems and the possibilities this brings.
Image from Denborough, David. 2014. Retelling the Stories of Our Lives: Everyday Narrative Therapy to Draw Inspiration and Transform Experience. Norton Books: New York
The following questions and answers about ‘externalising’ were created in response to regular requests from practitioners. We’ve tried to respond to some of the questions that are most commonly asked in training contexts. This article was first published in The International Journal of Narrative Therapy and Community Work, 2002 No.2, and can be found in the book Narrative therapy: Responding to your questions, compiled by Shona Russell & Maggie Carey (Adelaide: Dulwich Centre Publications, 2004).
Externalising – Commonly Asked Questions
This is a story of ‘Sugar’ by Aunty Barbara Wingard. It’s a story about trying to find new ways of working, of trying different things and taking new steps.
Please find the article here: Introducing ‘Sugar’
This short film gives helps us visualise what ‘externalising’ problems can look like and make possible..
In this presentation, Mark Hayward draws on Michael White’s ideas described in the book Maps of Narrative Practice. Mark takes us through Michael White’s Statement of Position Map 1 and how this map enables externalising conversations. Within this presentation Mark also invites you to chart an externalising conversation. We hope this video will enable you to begin using externalising ideas with people you are meeting with!
Please download the following interactive documents.
Statement Of Position Map Powerpoint presentation
Chart
Synopsis
Joe transcript
“Externalizing conversations in which the problem becomes the problem, not the person, can be considered counter-practices to those that objectify people’s identities. Externalizing conversations employ practices of objectification of the problem against cultural practices of objectification of people” (White, 2007, 26).
White, M. 2007. Maps of Narrative Practice. Norton Books: New York
Further resources
If you wish to learn more about externalising problems, you may wish to enrol in our Externalising Conversations online course
For Reflection
Which resource in this chapter particularly caught your attention and why?
What sort of problems could be externalised in your context?
What difference might this make?
Now please consider talking with others below about the ideas, questions and wonderings these resources and questions have raised for you! Please include where you are writing from (City and Country). Thanks!
Cindy Gribble
May 29, 2023I found the PowerPoint with the transcript helpful, as it demonstrated SOP in a practical manner.
I also believe that Matthew Johnstone’s depiction of depression, could be utilised to promote an altered perspective for clients that suffer similar symptoms (they are not the problem, the illness is the problem) and might aid them in externalising their own “cloud, storm, shadow, dread, etc.”
Nancy C.
May 28, 2023I found the story of Sugar really interesting, that personifying the problem can make such a positive impact on understanding the problem. It also struck me when Mark Hayward mentioned externalising shaming and silence rather than externalising the actual abuse which would be more damaging to the victim. Also, Joey didn’t invent bulling etc. They participate and extend on it so that kind of culture can be discussed in therapy. It is very helpful to explore these areas. Thank you!
Nancy from London
Elsie
May 23, 2023I found the concept and tool of externalising as so expanding. It’s amazing me how simple (in that it seems to make so much sense) yet how powerful this tool is.
Most of the resources really had an affect on me. I appreciated how the commonly asked questions really clearly explained externalising in simple language. The black dog video was amazing in giving such a strong example of how externalising can allow people the space to feel empowered to make a change in their relationship with a problem.
I was particularly influenced by Mark Haywards video; where he talked through the mapping of Joey’s conversation. I really understood the creativity, patience and gentle persistence that seems to be needed in externalising conversation. I also noticed the presence that must be heldin order to pick up on certain language, cues and information.
In my own context, there are many things I think about my personal life, and particularly metal health, that I could externalise. Eg I often say “my anxiety has been really strong this week” or “I’m really anxious” and instead I sometimes externalise it to “the lamb in an empty paddock” feeling which seems suitable to me. I think about the ways that lots of “mental health problems” in people that I work with could actually be externalised In ways that fit with their experiences.
Doing so might empower those people. To feel more than that problem. As though their identity is not defined by this thing. Instead they are the expert on defining it, and choosing how they want to interact with it in their life. It seems Externalising allows space and empowers people to choose their own relationship
With it.
rmgarland
May 22, 2023Hi, I’m Megan from Hamilton, Victoria Australia.
I really appreciate this teaching. I have begun to use the “Monster in Me” concept while counselling children in a primary school this year, but without this more full explanation of externalising, what value it has, and how I can work with it beyond initial conversations. This helps so much! I particularly appreciate the point that externalising enables the client to own the naming and describing of the issue that they are dealing with, that they become the expert, rather than me. I can see how empowering this is, as well as engaging, and how heard it would make them feel.
zchrrn
May 19, 2023I really appreciated the powerpoint resource being shared along with the Joey transcript. My learning style is to be able to watch people doing things and then imagine how i can incorporate this into my practice. I am looking forward to applying externalising to my male clients who default to anger responses.
dyc123
May 18, 2023Hello, my name is Dawn and I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Today’s chapter has given me a deeper understanding of the difference between externalizing the feelings associated with a problem such as bullying, and limiting the externalization of responsibility of one’s behaviour associated with the problem, and how to navigate this important difference. I also learned the importance of externalizing cultural and social influences that facilitate and perpetuate the problem to add thickness and richness to the client’s narrative. I really love how charting conversations give therapists a detailed map of the effects of a problems, its characteristics, and a client’s take on the problem. The map can show how certain questions may not be effective at a certain time in the conversation, and how to redirect the questioning to get more detail about a problem. It is fantastic!
Isaac Gallaway
May 17, 2023Isaac Gallaway from Yakima, Washington, USA. There are a lot of strengths with this model as it allows someone to look outside themself and not feel judged or put on guard through the amygdala hijacking that can occur when people feel threatened. This also empowers people to be participants in the solutions instead of just the recipients of the end product; they get the ability to help craft and administer a story that will deeply impact them. I furthermore enjoy that this model also helps to use the power of story which have long lasting impact on the human brain and development. Through this process there is the opportunity to help people write new chapters, chart the progress, and see how we can approach in helpful ways.
The analogy that came to mind is not calling the person the stew, but noticing each of the ingredients that make up the stew. Yes, it may be Zuppa Tuscana, but we can see kale, water, fats, sausage, etc. Likewise, yes, it’s the individual, but we can pull out the different elements and call them what they are in words that resonate and empower the individual that we’re coming alongside.
Nancy Bell
May 16, 2023Hello, I’m Nancy from Brisbane, Australia and I have found this section all very interesting. The story around Sugar provided such a culturally appropriate narrative for a difficult problem, encouraging participation without naming and shaming. A great example of how externalising a problem can provide a safe space to raise and discuss sensitive issues.
I really loved the mapping exercise with Mark Harward and this process seems to provide the narrative with some structure – nuts and bolts on which to hang a guided conversation. In my area of work with older people, a nostalgic conversation is very commonplace and sometimes there may be a problem hanging in the conversation that has been hanging there for a very long time for the person concerned. Quite often the narrative remains the same over and over because the underlying problem remains. I think this process of externalisation mapping provides some tools to help name the problem as opposed the the person with the problem, gently and safely offering an opportunity for discussion in a very non judgemental way. I think it could also be very useful with the problem of forgetfulness. Sometimes forgetfulness is just associated with normal ageing processes and sometimes associated with the onset of dementia in the early stages. At this time individuals remain mostly lucid and can feel great embarrassment and shame when they might forget something previously known or an everyday issue. By carefully constructing a narrative around forgetfulness which implies that it is not a personal failing, dignity may be maintained. To be further explored. I am loving this. Big thanks. Nancy Bell
Xenia
May 9, 2023Hi all, I am Xenia, I am from Chicagoland, Illinois.
I was impressed by the Black Dog named Depression, and there was something I was surprised to feel and to learn.
I have chronic depression, and the metaphor of the Black Dog that spoils things, disturbs and prevents you from normal living, to my opinion is a quite a bulls eye. But I was surprised to find out that I basically like my Black Dog. I mean, I know it is really annoying but with the time I understood that that wasn’t a bad dog – it was just a dog, acting as many other dogs act. I’ve got this dog, and probably I will live with it all the rest of my life, but we are not enemies, we are kinda roommates. That’s amazing. I didn’t expect I have reached some level of acceptance of what is going on. I do not hate my depression (and myself) anymore, and the video helped me to realize that.
There was a scene, when a man throws a stick and the dog runs away to catch it – that is probably how I managed to deal with my Black Dog. I play with it. It is still exhausting but at least I have fun.